The Stash

Speaker 1: I need to call a Polish friend to figure out how to pronounce this name.

Speaker 2: Stancik.

Speaker 1: Stancik.

Speaker 2: Stancik.

Speaker 1: Stancik. Stancik. Stanczyk is the name of a famous Polish painting of this famous Polish figure. But for the purposes of this story, I just need you to be able to picture it. It's this big, old, dramatically lit oil painting, and in the center is this character, Stanczyk. He was this famous court gesture during the Polish renaissance, and in the painting, he's sitting all slouched in this big old chair, legs kinda kicked out in front of him, fingers intertwined in his lap, shoulders slouched, and this expression of doubt and concern on his face. He's lonesome even as he's wearing the classic jester outfit, the hat with the three prongs and the bells on the ends. He looks like the illustration of a joker from a pack of cards, But instead of putting on a show for the royals celebrating down the corridor, you can kind of just make them out in the painting. Stenchyff just looks exhausted. He looks done. I first saw this painting, and it's a pretty famous painting, accompanying a forum post on the Internet titled Finale. In it, a user, fittingly named Joker, makes an announcement that

Speaker 3: Joker stash is closing.

Speaker 1: The user, Joker, runs a online store called Joker stash.

Speaker 3: When we opened years ago, nobody knew us.

Speaker 1: And for about six years, Jokerstash has been kind of the beating heart of an online community of people buying and selling these vast repositories of financial information stolen and pilfered in some of the highest profile data breaches of the last decade.

Speaker 3: Today, we are one of the largest cards dumps marketplace.

Speaker 1: The story of its rise and its role in the cybercrime ecosystem, as well as its looming retirement, is our subject today.

Speaker 3: Unfortunately or fortunately, nothing lasts forever.

Speaker 1: The full name of the painting is Stenchuk during a ball at the court of Queen Bona in the face of the loss of Smolensk. On the table in the painting is a crumpled up letter, and this taken with the name tells the story behind the painting. Poland had just lost Smolensk to Russia, And while the royals in the background of the painting are off celebrating some other victory,

Speaker 2: only Steincik.

Speaker 1: Sees and feels the gravity of what has occurred. Stenchk can see something that everybody else is missing.

Speaker 3: It's time for us to leave forever.

Speaker 1: This is the stash. Here on Hacked. It's a cybercrime story, but it's also very much like a business story. It reads a little bit like a Bloomberg profile.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: It's a profile of, like, a disruptee person trying to break into an industry.

Speaker 2: And just, like, getting fed up with it and leaving? A little bit. The classic classic Wall Street investment banker who turns into, like, a executive director for a charity, maybe.

Speaker 1: Just plagued by some kind it is interesting to think what Joker will go on to do after this is said and done.

Speaker 2: You've got to assume he's probably made a decent amount of money in the last, you know, whatever it is, eight years.

Speaker 1: So Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2: So I'm assuming he's probably stable.

Speaker 1: So I think stability is interesting, but the amount of money the dude the person has made is, like, is not even a question. It it it it it's a lot. Yeah. And it think to understand how they disrupted this market, you need to understand the market first joker stash is, or was, I guess, depending on when people are listening to this, because I think it's set to shut down in like three weeks. It's a karting market. So we kinda gotta start with what karting is.

Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. We could talk about karting. So karting is, like, one of the oldest forms of theft online. You know, as e commerce developed and especially the porn industry, as people started using their credit cards to pay for things online, you know, those credit card numbers got stored in the databases and, you know, pretty much hackers for the the longest time have figured out how to break in and steal information out of databases. So, stealing credit card tables out of databases is, you know, could be considered a very lucrative thing to do.

Speaker 1: I think it's definitely a very lucrative it's see, that's super interesting because you jumped to a digital point of sale. You jumped to people have typed the credit card into a website and I'm and the hacker is going in and they're finding the credit card digitally because there's a whole another side of this too. Totally. There's the physical point of sale.

Speaker 2: That's just as, you know like, carding goes back far enough to when, you know, everything wasn't as strongly networked as it is today, but now every enterprise management system is connected to the Internet somehow. So physical transactions inside of a local retailer, you know, probably going into a database that is still accessible on the Internet. So, yeah, of course. That's just an evolution of the topic, I think.

Speaker 1: I think there's a couple terms that we should establish for people.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 1: So, we're gonna start with the product that's sitting in the middle of this whole business business ecosystem. Our first term is dump. And, a dump refers to that string of data that gets pulled off of a credit card. You're talking about how it's sitting inside of a digital database. It's also the string of data that's pulled off the magnetic stripe on the back of the card. Each card is broken down into the basic information of a credit card. The number, the security card, the dates, the shipping address, and the PIN. Everything you need to turn around and use that card to do a transaction. And, if you take those individual dumps records and you encode it onto potentially the magnetic stripe of basically anything the size of a credit card, that's when you can turn around and use it to purchase purchase stolen merchandise or gift cards or really anything.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Forfit cards or forfeit cards. What's the word I'm looking for there? We make a replica of something. It's not forfeit.

Speaker 1: Oh, not plagiarized. Not, counterfeit? No.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Counterfeit cards.

Speaker 1: Counterfeit? Counterfeit cards. There

Speaker 2: you go. Counterfeit cards. There you go. Leave that in the pod. Make sure everybody knows what to do. The, yeah. You could take the information, re encode them, and turn them into counterfeit cards, then you can use those counterfeit cards as if they're real until they get canceled.

Speaker 1: So if this was you, where would you start going for that information? We've talked about the two options, the physical points, all the digital. Like, which one of those to you is more appealing?

Speaker 2: Well, I think the I think your intended use is the big thing. Like, producing counterfeit cards requires a lot of infrastructure. Right? You need to be able to essentially print and and stripe new credit cards, which is, you know, requires a bunch of things. If it was just me, you know, not having that physical infrastructure and the infrastructure to make counterfeit cards, you know, that seems to be more of an organized crime sort of vibe. You know, as the lone lone wolf hacker vibe, I think, you know, you'd probably still be using those credit card numbers digitally, so you wouldn't actually be making the counterfeit cards. So, you know, you're really just looking for that dump, the data dump from the database, the credit cards table, you know, the customers table, all the relevant information you need to use those card numbers. You could probably pretty easily track down and find, you know, small e commerce sites that are using buggy software or have default passwords and stuff like that. And it'd be probably pretty easy to get in. But Mhmm. So so it depends on what kind of scale I was looking at. Like, I know Joker's Stash was looking at a pretty massive scale. You know, they were targeting massive retailers. Where if it was just me as a lone wolf, or I'd probably wanna go for something smaller. Start small, get my feet wet, and then go from there.

Speaker 1: So, in this instance, you being a lone wolfer, that brings us pretty nicely to the next term, which is a reseller. In this case, you as a lone wolf would be the reseller. And the term is kind of unintuitive. Most of these big card dump shops rely on a whole bunch of different suppliers of stolen cards.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 1: Resellers are the people going out stealing those those cards and, I guess, reselling them to the marketplace. And there was a thing that I found interesting about this, which was it's one of the rare instances of actual, like, digital scarcity. The idea behind this community is that you do not sell a card twice. You don't sell a card to two different card dumps, and a card dump never sells the same card to two different people. Once it's sold, it's supposed to be removed. And at this kind of level, the Joker stash is operating at, if you're found to be double dipping, the you're excommunicado to the community.

Speaker 2: That makes sense. One counterfeit card floating around is gonna draw a lot less attention than, like, a thousand counterfeit cards, you know, the same number. Like, Visa's got quite comprehensive AI, you know, Their their risk mitigation department's, you know, probably second to almost none. You know? They're dealing with such a crazy amount of fraud, and they've got such great detection algorithms that, you know, it's probably a lot easier to keep one card being used fraudulently under the radar than if that same number is being used by, like, 50 people. Right? So if I'm paying real money for these cards or for these numbers, if I'm a buyer in this market, you know, I'm not gonna buy something that everybody else has. You know, it's probably by the time it's like when you somebody posts like a discount code that's got one use on Reddit. You know, it's used in four seconds. You know, that's kinda probably how these credit cards are. It's like, you know, if you get a a dump file that's got 50 cards in it and 50,000 people go to use it, you know, pretty certain that you're not gonna be the first one, probability says.

Speaker 1: You, you brought up buyers and that brings us perfectly to the last kind of link in this transaction in the last two terms. First of which is carders. And carders are the people in here who are buying these cards and then making the purchases. They're the people in this whole thing who are trying to realize a profit using the cards, not by selling them. Mhmm. And they might do it by buying gift cards to then go buy stuff. They might jump straight to the high ticket items. But when you hear about Carders, they're the customers of this whole ecosystem. And below them are runners, or the people that are actually assuming the risk and physically going out into the world with these cards. I found this interesting. There's a couple different ways you can do this. You can just go to a store and try and buy something. You can convert it into gift cards and go buy something with those. Or there's a pretty common one where because the card issuer might figure out that something is wrong pretty quickly, a a team of runners might go to a bunch of ATMs with multiple copies of the same card and at the exact same time withdraw as much money as humanly possible, knowing that the card will be locked down the second after that transaction, but it doesn't matter because they've already taken out a huge amount of money from the account.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure. They're just mitigating their future risk by realizing a bigger profit immediately. That makes sense as in a financial sense.

Speaker 1: For sure. The whole thing is people minimizing, risk by foregoing a little bit of profit in the future. It's the entire thing. The resellers are doing it. The market's doing it. The carters are doing it. Pretty much everyone but the runner is doing it.

Speaker 2: The runner is the peon.

Speaker 1: They're where the whole they're where the buck stops. Literally. And until 2014, that's kinda just how this whole thing worked. Yeah. Resellers selling to markets, selling to carders, using runners. Until 2014, Joker stash sort of bursts onto the scene with this really interesting sales pitch. In one of their earliest forum posts on the site, the original user Joker explained where they got their dumps from, and he summarized it as follows.

Speaker 3: This means in our shop you can buy only our own stuff, and our stuff you can buy only in our shop. Nowhere else.

Speaker 1: And they could do this because they were a combination reseller and card market. Unlike so many of the other carding sites that were mainly selling cards stolen by other hackers, Joker stash claimed that all of their cards were exclusive self hacked dumps. They were doing both the hacking and the selling. And that's how they could maintain this really steady drip of super high quality controlled dumps. And the quality was, as the community responded to it, like, pretty high.

Speaker 2: I think in business, they call that vertical integration. So, he he cut cut out one of the one of the one of the lower levels and started doing the hacking himself too to ensure that to quality control what he was selling on his site. Interesting. It makes sense. Like, I could see I could see how at that point, like, if you know that you're buying something direct from source that nobody else is gonna buy and the person who runs the selling market is holding themselves responsible for the quality, I can see how you'd garner a higher price. Because Mhmm. You got a much stronger assurance. Because in in the reseller markets, you know, you don't know what the what the reseller has done with them. You know, you don't know what the hacker who hacked the dump, he might have already used them or tried them or been buying things online or whatever. He might have already compromised that dump. And especially if the dump information isn't, like, you know, on Krebs or something. Like, if you've hacked into Target and Target doesn't know it yet, then Visa hasn't been notified that all those card numbers are potentially fraudulent. You know, where the second you start showing up on more public domain stuff, you know, reseller markets and stuff like that, Visa probably monitors those greatly. I'm sure they monitor Joker's stash too, but maybe they have a harder time, finding out where the information came from.

Speaker 1: And you'd think it was a gimmick if it wasn't for the fact that the hacks were high. Right? Like, if they if it was bad content, maybe this could be sort of a way of selling it. But by all accounts, the quality of the dumps was was was pretty up there, and so was the profile of the targets they were going after. They were hacking Hilton Hotels, Whole Foods, Chipotle, like, like, relatively big brands. Mhmm. And so slowly, they start to develop this reputation. They got good dumps, hacked themselves, they've got quality control. And as people flood in in response to that quality of the product, they started, I guess, applying that same quality to the nature of the store. It wasn't this sort of, like, digital lemonade stand they popped up. It was like it really felt like a real business. It had loyalty rewards and bulk discounts and user reviews. They were approaching like a service and they wanted it to be a pretty good one.

Speaker 2: Clearly, a smart businessman. Whether his talents are his or her, I guess we'll never know. I keep saying him but, you I shouldn't gender it because who knows? The, the talents that they have, you know, they clearly leverage them, you know, whether you ethically or morally agree with what they're doing. Mhmm. Clearly, they were they figured some stuff out. You know, there's a lot of businesses out there that don't have the level of sophistication in marketing and customer management that they do.

Speaker 1: So I wanted to do a little, like, due diligence to figure out if this was a business if I would personally invest in them.

Speaker 2: You want me to be a VC and you give me the elevator

Speaker 1: pitch. Oh, man. I'm not sure if I'm ready for a shark tank, but I do got some fun trivia about how the store worked.

Speaker 2: Cool. Let's hear it.

Speaker 1: So like any big box store, the sort of same stores that they were hacking and buying stuff from, they had bulk discounts, including this built in discount system for larger orders, 5% for customers if you spend over 300, 15% over a thousand, 30% off for customers who topped up their Bitcoin balance to the equivalent of $10,000 or more, which alludes to a very important point that's gonna come up later, which was that this whole store ran on Bitcoin. It's true of almost all these markets. Joker stash ran on Bitcoin. Of course. And you were incentivized by the store structure to keep a lot of coin in your balance because you could get a discount. They had loyalty bonuses. Customers with higher ratings could get advance notice of new batches or stolen cards, as well as like more time and tolerance to get refunds if cards didn't work, which is to say they offered refunds of cards that didn't work. There were big customers, kind of high rollers that could qualify for a special tier full stash category. And to get in, you had to have deposited more than $10,000. Essentially, you had to have proved yourself to this community they were trying to build. And they had these big spender partner clients. And, I thought just from a security perspective this was kind of cool. If you reach this partner tier, they would issue you these custom domain names. You get three custom three word domains that when you logged in, you only went to the domains and they were displayed across the top of the site. And you were encouraged to only ever use those custom domains to access Joker stash. Why do you think they would do this? Probably tracking.

Speaker 2: Mhmm. Maybe. You know, obviously there's some perks there where if you get offered a custom domain name, you know, you're they can customize and tailor the content on it for you. You know, that's the market. Oh, interesting. That's the marketing side of it, but Mhmm. The other side of it is too is that you'd be the only inbound traffic to that site. So Mhmm. So there'd be a bit of a way to track people from it.

Speaker 1: That's like a very good point.

Speaker 2: As well as as well as verification. So, like, if you know that, you know, customer x always comes from, you know, Papua New Guinea, and then one day he's coming from Turkey, or one day he's coming from, you know, the center of The United States, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's not him anymore or them Right. Them them anymore. So you'd have you'd have some ability to to put in some some security checks using stuff like that.

Speaker 1: That is interesting. There's one and a half other reasons. And the one I bumped into was that, essentially, if your main domain ever went down or you had to switch over to a new registrar Yeah. Your really, really big customers wouldn't be affected because whatever got taken down probably had nothing to do with their special custom URLs. They've got kind of their own own secret door in the alley to the shop. Sure.

Speaker 2: So when CIA takes down the main Exactly. Stash page, then all of the big spenders still have access to it? Mhmm. Smart.

Speaker 1: And as Joker Stash became more and more prominent, people started taking note and they started noticing how much traffic was going to those main domains and they started getting ideas. And we're gonna tell you about one of those schemes right after the break. Starting some new isn't just hard. It can be downright terrifying. You put a lot of work into a thing. You're not entirely sure it's gonna work out. You're taking a huge leap of faith. I've started a few things. Now I know I was right for believing in, you know, the idea, the product, despite all of those fears and hesitations, but boy does it sure help when you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in The US. From household names like, well, hacked podcasts merch, to brands just getting started, you can get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Did I mention that that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? I don't know why I wouldn't. I should. It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less carts sort of getting abandoned in the parking lot and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com/hacked. Go to shopify.com/hacked. One more time, that's shopify.com/act. When I found out I was gonna be a parent, I immediately felt a lot of anxiety and worry. So I went on to BetterHelp to try to look for a therapist to help me with that.

Speaker 4: My relationship with my family and with my boyfriend and with myself were suffering. I really needed help. I was ruminating a lot. Really getting those thoughts out to a therapist and getting feedback was just life changing.

Speaker 1: Discover what BetterHelp online therapy can do for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. It's back in 2018, and the security researcher logs into Joker stash to take a look around the shop. He logs in, and he drops in his $100 Bitcoin security deposit at jokerstash.su. And the site tells him that, you know, fraud has been up and to make sure that users are legit about spending in the store, that they're here to do business, the minimum deposit has been increased to 200. $200 in Bitcoin. So this anonymous researcher deposits another $100 At this point, he is promptly logged out and when he goes to log back in, his credentials do not work. Joker stash does require a deposit and there are discounts for larger investments, But jokerstash.su is not the real Joker stash. It was a phishing scheme, available on the clear web to trap people clamoring around trying to find the real Joker stash. This explains a couple things, but most prominently why you would want to do those custom domains, because people just trying to find Joker stash for the first time was a huge attack vector for people going after their credentials. Researchers would later find out that the scheme was operated by this really ambitious Pakistani web firm called Experia Solutions, operated by a guy named Mohammed Junaid, AKA Mastermind, AKA Masoon Parinda, AKA a dude who made a photoshopped movie poster I'm looking at right now, posted on his Facebook, featuring himself as, like, a Goodfellas style crime lord.

Speaker 2: Nice. Nice.

Speaker 1: He's, like, he's got, like, a gun, and he's, like, kissing a pretty lady in the background. And the tagline to his, his movie, maybe it's the name of the movie, is, never trust crime. Wow. It's which is good advice. You should never trust crime.

Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I guess words to live by.

Speaker 1: But, the Gryph, which didn't last very long, was kind of far from the only one of its kind. And, it speaks to this dominance the Joker stash was finding in this ecosystem and culture over the years since 2014. They were the big dog now. Ambitious people were riding on their coattails. And really, they'd kind of earned it. Their stuff was good. And having been around and survived since 2014, they were really the oldest major store currently in operation at the time. They'd sort of taken over.

Speaker 3: Unfortunately or fortunately, nothing lasts forever.

Speaker 1: You can actually chart the decline in the volume of cards and content that Joker stash is posting in 2020. Like, there are actual charts that you can look at. A security firm called Gemini Advisory made them, and you can see the drop off in volume of card dumps on this illegal commerce site that they were tracking. And the community is noticing. They don't need charts. They see less content. They see lower success rates with the cards they're buying. And Joker Sesh finds itself in something of this, like, PR crisis. The admins are on the on the site posting that now we've got new content coming. The valid rates are gonna go up. It's gonna get better. There's more stuff to come. But it's becoming clear to this community that something is wrong, that the brains behind the operation were a little bit foggy. And in October 2020, Joker, the same one who kicked all of this off with the original post in 2014, posts again explaining why. Tell me tell me why. Tell me why.

Speaker 3: Fucking COVID. I got infected with COVID fourteen days ago. I start to feel myself not so well. In two, three days off to begin, I start to feel myself terrible.

Speaker 1: They go to the doctor. They get diagnosed with COVID. They eat a bunch of pills, their words, and conclude, quote

Speaker 3: Sorry for this unplanned shift and pause in my work. We are all humans. Sometimes we are weak. I will back to normal work in one, two days and will continue to do regular daily fresh updates. Thanks for understanding.

Speaker 1: And it's impossible to know the cause and effect of what follows, but it feels kinda like the first domino falling. In 12/16/2020, several of Joker's long held domains begin displaying notices that sites had been seized by the US Department of Justice and Interpol. The shop bounced back quickly hopping over to new infrastructure, promising the underground community that it's going to continue to operate normally. But as Gemini continues to track in their many fine fine charts, the quality is just falling and falling. Joker had gotten COVID. The authorities were gaining some kind of a foothold in their operation. Their clients are losing faith. And so finally, on January 15, Joker posts again. That original post we talked about in the intro. Finale.

Speaker 3: Joker goes on a well deserved retirement. Joker's stash is closing. When we opened years ago, nobody knew us. Today, we are one of the largest cards dump marketplaces. Unfortunately, or fortunately, nothing lasts forever. It's time for us to leave forever. We will leave the stash open for thirty more days, the February 15 so all stash users can spend accounts balances. On the February 15, we will wipe all our servers and backups and Joker will fade to dark forever. And mark my word, we will never ever open again. Do not trust possible future imposters. After the February 15, there will be no more Joker and no more Joker stash. Dear partners of stash, you can be sure that before we leave forever, you will get all payouts. Contact me. You know how.

Speaker 2: That's very distinguished. You know, he's he's, drawn a line in the sand. He's shutting down shop, and he's giving he didn't do, like, every Bitcoin exchange and stuff, and then just take everybody's deposits and hit the hit the hit the road. So, you know, it seems like they're quite a substantial qualified business, you know? I I guess his weaknesses or their weakness was that it seems like it was mostly a single person.

Speaker 1: It does seem like it has a voice to it. Like, there is this sense that there is someone piloting the ship, and it's a ship that steals and sells stolen credit card information.

Speaker 2: But it also seems like it's a single pilot ship. Like, it's like, you know, I get sick, you know, we don't make the podcast, or, you know, if you can still make the podcast, you know, if you're the only person in your criminal enterprise. So, you've got to imagine that, you know, over the years, dealing with such high quality content and buyers probably socked away a lot of Bitcoin. And, I I feel like mid January something happened with Bitcoin.

Speaker 1: Yep. Some were sad. Others who were disappointed with the declining quality in the site were kinda more neutral about it, figured it was time. Some accepted the premise of why Joker was shutting down. Other thought it was a conspiracy that FBI had detained Joker. But I think there's this other possibility.

Speaker 2: And that I think you

Speaker 1: might be ahead ahead of me on this, which is that when you look at this, not as a hacking story, but as a business story, it makes perfect sense. One year ago, Bitcoin, the currency that joker stash operated on, the currency held in user accounts as a measure of trust, the currency Joker had essentially been paid in realizing the profits of this giant ecommerce platform of was worth about 11,000 a coin. That was a year ago. Just one year. And today, it's worth I think, 44,000 a coin. Yikes. That's a 400% jump in one year. What

Speaker 2: was it worth in 2014?

Speaker 1: And Joker stash was this early advocate of Bitcoin and they claimed to have kept all the proceeds in it since 2014 when it was valued at the start of the year at about $450.

Speaker 2: Yeah. There you go. Sounds like a pretty good retirement story.

Speaker 1: Pretty good return on your on your startup. Joker is in all likelihood in the upper echelon of wealthy cyber criminals. And the spike probably just multiplied it. It almost certainly just multiplied it. And I think this is just a person looking at their loot and saying the time for holding is past. It is time to sell. Totally.

Speaker 2: And like the with the CIA, FBI, and anybody else knocking on your door, it's only a matter of time. It's gotta be hard to sit there and be like, I got, like, $65,000,000 in the bank. Mhmm. And maybe I'll just ride it out and see if I go to jail for the rest of my life. Or maybe I just disappear right now and, you know, the world will never know who I was.

Speaker 1: It is estimated that since its creation, Joker Stash has generated over $1,000,000,000 in revenue. What? They have sold hundreds of millions of stolen cards. But at the end of the day, it is as you said, it's just a business. And those get bought and sold, new ones come along and shove them out, which is gonna happen here. The collapse of Silk Road had functionally no impact on the amount of illegal commerce on the dark web. Someone's gonna replace them. But I think this is just a person with good timing.

Speaker 2: A billion dollars?

Speaker 1: In revenue.

Speaker 2: Let's just back up to that because if we're talking about a solo piloted ship. Mhmm. And essentially is like a very low infrastructure cost. Like, you know, I don't even know how you could spend a $100,000 a year operating unless he had tons of admins and moderators and stuff like that. But a billion dollars in revenue for essentially a product that costs nothing to acquire, no cost of goods sold, that's and a billion dollars in Bitcoin, yikes. Yikes. That's wild. Wild, wild.

Speaker 1: So there's this last line at the end of the finale post that is super interesting. And it's super interesting considering the length the Joker went to to make a buck. It's super interesting considering how they did it, like the theft of credit cards, this sort of symbol of commerce and capital. It's interesting to read it under this painting of that Polish jester Stenchuk wearing just kind of sitting wearily in his chair with this look of realization on his face. And the last post concludes, we also want to wish all young and mature one cyber gangsters not to lose themselves in the pursuit of easy money. Remember that even all the money in the world will never make you happy and that all the most truly valuable things in this life are free. Spooky computer voices. Thanks for listening everybody. If you want to support the show you can check us out at patreon.com/hackedpodcast. You can find us on Twitter at hackedpodcasts. It's, first episode of 2021. Happy to be back. Catch you in the next one.

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