Talking Flipper Zero with The Talking Sasquatch

Speaker 1: NBC five investigates viral videos showing people how to use this $200 device that can unlock cars, secured gates, even doors to private buildings. Amazon just banned these cloning devices from its website.

Speaker 2: You can do a lot for $200. Well, we talked to security experts.

Speaker 3: And so, naturally, I just had to buy one.

Speaker 4: You see a a a news broadcast saying there is a a device that is no longer legal, so naturally you had to pick one up.

Speaker 3: But it's not illegal. It's just that's That's true. There's a discussion going on around whether it's going to remain legal, which means that I had to had to get one before that discussion elevates into law.

Speaker 4: Sure. You wanted to get one while the getting is good. That makes a lot of sense. I remember when I first heard about this, it was with murmurs that the Flipper Zero, might not be long for this world, and I too wanted to buy one. So I'm very excited you did. And we make a podcast, so the best way you could possibly learn about it is probably interviewing someone for this show.

Speaker 3: So when I got it, I was like, what is this thing? How does it work? How do I use it? Right. So I did what everybody does, and I went to YouTube.

Speaker 4: One stop shop.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And what did I find on YouTube? What did

Speaker 4: you find on YouTube?

Speaker 3: I found lots of content regarding the Flipper Zero, but typically one large YouTuber, the talking Sasquatch or talking Sasquatch or sass as I like to call him. And he makes predominantly Flipper Zero content and seems to be the biggest channel. So I did what any sane podcaster would do. Instead of watching all of his content, I invited him on the show to explain it all to me in person.

Speaker 4: It really is like the luxury of hosting a podcast, the shortest distance between not knowing something and knowing something. Would you please just come on my show and explain it

Speaker 3: to me? Exactly. So today, we're joined by the Talking Sasquatch, and we're gonna go through the Flipper Zero and all the questions that I had about it, which I hope you find interesting. It's a bit more of a technical episode today, and if as Jordan can attest to. If that's not for you, that's fine. I I I hope you enjoy some of the other content, but, stick around. It was a pretty interesting chat.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's a technical conversation, but it's also a fascinating deep dive into both what you can do with this device, where it came from, this kind of story of all these different hacker tools being brought together into, like, kind of more of a gadget, something between a gadget and a platform. And then what it means to share information on the Internet about a device that has kind of a little bit of, like, a reputation behind it. What it means to share stuff and and to have to navigate, is this okay for me to be putting out there in the world? Is this useful information, or is this, like, hacker information? It is a fascinating conversation, and talking Sasquatch was, great to chat with.

Speaker 3: So thanks thanks for coming on the show. You know, we really appreciate you making the time making the time to come on and enlighten me, notably, but also, you know, vicariously enlighten our listeners. So

Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: So the, I bought one of these Flipper Zeros. I read an article that said that they might potentially get banned, and then that, of course, triggered me that burning need to immediately add to cart and buy one. So I bought one, and I really, like, hadn't done any research into them. I just knew that they were, like, these cool little hacking utilities. I won't call it a toy because it's not a toy. And, I I was like, what does this thing even do? How do I use this thing? And immediately found your content. And was like, you know what? I'm just gonna fire this Sasquatch a message and see if he wants to come on the show and just have a chat about these things because you know considerably more than I probably ever will about this device. So I just thought it'd be great to have you on.

Speaker 5: Well, yeah. I definitely, know how to do a few things at this point. And it's interesting too because it's always evolving. Right? Like, every week it seems there's a new app that comes out, there's a new Mhmm. Something, like, there's a paradigm shift and, like, it's just really, really weird. And I know all sorts of tech is like that where literally things go from, like, 50 miles an hour to a 100 miles an hour, like, just because one person shows up. Sure. But there's always some cool stuff to do. It's been been really good for a flipper for me because, you know, there's always content there. There's always, you know, evolving situations and stuff.

Speaker 3: Totally. Totally. So the, just so everybody knows, our guest this week, Talking Sasquatch, has a a great YouTube channel that talks considerably about this device as well as other devices I see, as I think your most recent video is is in regards to a, a, a Wi Fi device that is not a flipper based one. But the, yeah, I I think a great place to start is, you know, kinda what is it? You know, what is this thing? It's very odd looking, has a weird shape. What is it, and where did it come from? So, like, I don't know if you if you know where it's from. I assume by some of the Russian lettering on the soft case that I got for it that it might be from Russia. But

Speaker 5: Yeah. So, yeah, the the flipper team is, I think, Russian and Ukrainian, something like that. The logistics of all that, I'm not particularly well versed on. But, obviously, it was in Kickstarter for a few years, and it's one of those things that people were starting to question, well, is this thing ever gonna actually exist? But, yeah, it's it's kind of build as a cybersecurity toy, for a number of reasons. One, I mean, it's fun. You know, you've got little animations and things like that on it. So it's got, like, the very most basic virtual pet, like, kind of functionality. But underneath it is a pretty okay Swiss army knife of, cybersec tools and and and kind of especially for penetrating, penetration testing. It's got some pretty decent functionality. Now it's not the best at doing virtually anything, but the fact that one small thing the size of, you know, a couple lighters, you can do a whole bunch of cool stuff.

Speaker 3: Because, like, the most of my background's in in software side of the hacking thing. I never really got into the hardware side. A little bit of phone freaking back in the day, but mostly software side. And the gist that I've gotten aside from just playing an endless amount snake on it, which I have been doing and I've done pretty well at, is that is that this is kind of a multi, you know, functional platform to build out hardware hacking things. It has a bunch of built in functionality, like a bunch of different radio receivers and transmitters as well as infrared receivers and transmitters, NFC receivers and transmitters, and just kind of it seems like it's like an extensible platform. Would you kinda agree with that?

Speaker 5: Absolutely. And what's really interesting being from the software side is that people are still kind of unlocking different features or different, you know, different things that you can do with the flipper just through the software. Mhmm. Specifically, the BLE spam. Mhmm. The people finally kinda figured out that they were able to emulate these BLE packets, and now they're using them to kind of attack cell phones and things like that. And it's really interesting because that functionality obviously was there since day one. But the the idea of of doing it with a flipper and and stuff like that kinda just recently came out. And that's really interesting to see things like that because, yeah, with GPIO, you can make almost anything for Flipper. I mean, we've seen, obviously, Wi Fi boards, but now we have GPS. There are range extenders, antennas, boosters, all sorts of cool stuff.

Speaker 3: I I just wanna I just wanna rewind a hair there and talk about some of, some of those, acronyms. BLE, so, like, the is Bluetooth Low Energy. Right?

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Bluetooth Low Energy.

Speaker 3: So this thing can this thing can emit Bluetooth low energy signals, which Correct. People have then figured out how to spam them at devices, essentially causing the devices to lock. Correct?

Speaker 5: There's a few of them. So the first one is basically a pairing spam. So you can just throw, like, a bunch of headphones, try to pair with your phone over and over again. And since there are so many different headphones, all of those headphones, like, on an iPhone, anytime you pair in, like, a JBL, or a Jabra or anything like that, it shows up as the actual device. Yeah. Yeah. All of those devices are mapped to, like, an image of it. So there is a little bit of a fail safe. So you can't take the same, device and try to pair it over and over and over again, but you can try to pair different devices. So what they figured out is they yeah. All you have to do is take a, all through the list of the devices and keep sending it to the phone over and over again. And effectively, you won't be able to really use the phone. There is another attack vector that they figured out, which effectively starts an audio device or something. I don't remember the exactly logistics of it, but it effectively starts what I believe is an audio device, and it will spike the g or the CPU to 100%. And in doing that, it makes it so that the temperature control sensor or temperature control service won't run. And if that doesn't run, then the kernel is not getting temperature information from the CPU, and then it does kernel panic, locks up, shuts down.

Speaker 3: Weird. Interesting.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. And it's just one of those things that I think somebody did by accident at some point in time, and they crashed their phone trying to figure out what else they can do with it. And they're like, wait a minute. Does this work for you? Your phone too? Yeah. Wait. It works on your phone too? And then all of a sudden, I'm making a video about it. So

Speaker 3: so that Sure.

Speaker 4: Crash your own device and realize there's a vulnerability out there.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 3: The, then then the next I just wanna the next kind of acronym he popped out there was GPIO, which is the general purpose input output pins. Right? So there's 18 little holes on the top of this thing that you can essentially clip circuit boards into. And to the best of my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Speaker 5: No. That's absolutely correct.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And it it delivers DC current to them so they can be powered boards. It it has kind of it's kind of like I'm actually believe when I ordered it, I ordered prototype boards, which are just blank circuit boards that are meant for you to build whatever you would like, clip it in, and write the code to make it work. Yep. You've built a few of these things, haven't you? You've built some of these boards yourself?

Speaker 5: Yeah. So one of the things that I did when I first started off just messing with Flipper was, I didn't buy the official Wi Fi board, didn't know what it did. So I didn't really may waste any money or time on it. Mhmm. So I didn't I didn't get one of those. And then I had seen I can't remember who was doing it at the time, but they were just hooking up a ESP 32 because, and that's just a little, basically a Wi Fi board. Mhmm. And what's cool about that is only four wires to it. So you can have a, a set of DuPont wires, plug in four wires, and you can flash this thing into a little Wi Fi board using, the Marauder firmware by Just Call Me Coco. So, yeah, that was the first thing that I ever did, and I'm like, oh, this is really cool. And, yeah, I mean, you could just use with the prototyping boards or anything like that. Now I am not a hardware person per se. As in, like, I've always kind of liked it. Like, I know how to solder and things like that. But, I'm a bicycle mechanic by trade. I mean, I've done that for, like, twenty some years at this point. Uh-huh. So and over the years, I've done some things here and there. But, yeah, I never really did any of this stuff professionally. And that's one of the things that's cool about Flippers because it brings a lot of people that may not be in either cybersecurity or technology or any of this stuff. And it kinda gives them a a reason to maybe get in there. Once you start messing with stuff, you can get more and more complicated. Because after I made that first board with the four wires, I decided that I wanted to make a multi board. So I wanted to have the Wi Fi, but I also wanted to have n r f 24 on it, which is, that was what you use for trying to take control over wireless mice and keyboards on a 2.4 gigahertz, like frequency. So I wanted to add one of those to there as well. That's another seven wires. And at the same time, somebody had showed me a picture of a, Heltech, ESP 32 with an OLED screen on it. And I'm like, you know what? I wanna try to put my logo on this thing. And Mhmm. I didn't even have a logo. I was I mean, I my my Discord name was Talking Sasquatch because this is the name I've used forever, literally forever. So, yeah, I, I was like, oh, cool. I'm gonna put a Sasquatch on it. So, I spent a lot awful lot of time and energy figuring that out because, me and Arduino IDE and me are not best friends. The Heltech board itself is super proprietary. So all of their, like, commands and stuff are, like, their own. So you can't it was it was not easy to do. I ended up spending a lot of time, begging people for help on the Arduino Discord. But eventually, we got it going. But yeah. So that was, like, another board that I made, and then I just kinda kept going from there slightly more intricate every time. So do having something like the flipper was really a catalyst that allowed me to try to do some things that I never would have tried before. And starting off small and then working your way up, it's kind of a good way to again, that's a great way to learn how to do anything.

Speaker 3: So so so what you're saying is this is a gateway drug?

Speaker 5: It really is. It really is, though. If you ask anybody who really got into it, like, it it really is. Especially, I mean, because you can go that from there, then you I started messing with firmware. And actually, the one of the first things that I did too is I started messing with animations. Mhmm. How I made my initial reputation was actually for writing the tutorial on how to make flipper animations. Because before I had written it down, the only way to really find out how to do that was to go literally beg people to tell you how it's done. And a lot of cases, those people because they learned how to do it from Val. Val was the animator, for the official Flipper project. And occasionally, she would show up in their Discord, and everybody would gather around and start asking all these questions. But nobody had formally written down the process for it. And even once I figured it out or once I was kind of taught how to do it from all the other people, I had some stuff wrong too. I had made some assumptions, and some of the things that I was doing were incorrect. And I only found out until, like, later that, like, oh, okay. Cool. So, you know, the the tutorial was a a living project, so we kept changing it. But, yeah, it was it's really interesting because there's so many things you can do on it. Then I started making the animations, and then I realized that I didn't like the way the top bar looked because it was hiding too much of the screen. Somebody had already figured out how to get rid of the there's a little ribbon cable that, sits on the top of the screen, on the flipper interface. Somebody already figured out how to get rid of that. So I'm like, well, if you can get rid of that, I wanna get rid of the SD card icon and stuff. So I spent a ton of time in the firmware, figuring out how to delete that because, again, I don't know c at all. All I can do is look at code and try to understand it and modify it. So I spent hours and hours and hours doing that and eventually, I figured it out. So it got me a little bit more comfortable working with, you know, working with the firmware. So I started making custom stuff to her firmware as well. So, again, it's just this little silly device. It's, supposed to be some sort of cyber tech, or cyber sec, like, e pet. It's just, yeah, a great intro into whatever you wanna do with it.

Speaker 3: You know, not only a gateway drug as far as hardware goes. You've actually started writing some code and messing about in the sea at this point. So it's it's broken you in entirely into the cybersecurity world.

Speaker 5: Yeah. In general, yeah. Well so, again, that's been really fun. And it it just gives you a reason to kinda mess around with stuff.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Totally. The, I wanna talk about firmwares in a second, but the one thing I wanted to talk about was, there's some criticism about this device that I've seen from other major YouTubers and stuff talking about how you could use a Raspberry Pi to do most of these things. But it just seems like to me, that seems insane because starting with a blank Raspberry Pi and having to build all of these attachments and write all these apps yourself or find them and modify them and install them versus just getting this tiny little device and it already supporting so many different things, radio, bands, NFC, so many things that you would have to figure out how to build a circuit board to add on to a Raspberry Pi that seems insane to me versus just paying $300 and getting this thing.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And, I mean, it's the right now, like, the official pricing because they were always inflated in the aftermarket. But official pricing in in America is, like, $1.69. It was, like, $1.70.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: And what what's a Raspberry Pi going for now? The last one I bought was, like, $75.

Speaker 3: Yeah. True.

Speaker 5: And then, yeah, you have to write your own software. You have to add all the modules and stuff. And then you have this monstrosity Uh-huh. That's just enormous that you have to, like I guess you're gonna try to use it at that point. Obviously, you're not doing anything, like, like, actually red teaming with it because, I mean, you're gonna need a briefcase. It's it's this doesn't make any sense. So I I do understand that. And, honestly, I have been waiting for someone to do a good write up of a DIY flipper zero because I will absolutely make that for sure. Because that's just fun. I would totally do that. But especially to show what it takes to make a flipper zero.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Totally.

Speaker 5: But, obviously, all the coding and stuff for that is is is just all just crazy. So trying to actually do that seems like a fool's errand if anything. Because I've heard a ton of people say they're gonna do it. I'm gonna make a cheaper flipper zero. I'm like, okay. Cool. Where's your startup capital? Get ready. You're gonna need some coders.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the the I don't know. The idea of of trying to rebuild like, I could see trying to make a better version of it, but I could never see the idea of trying to make a cheaper version of it. Like, I don't find it particular for what you get, I don't find it particularly expensive. Like, I've wasted like, I think we're in Canada, so I think this thing cost me, like, $260, which is, you know, give or take a little bit of conversion and maybe a little bit of aftermarket pricing from distribution taxes or something. But essentially, the same thing with what you pay. But, like, I couldn't imagine trying to build one of these things with this much functionality and this one's extensibility for less and manu and be able to manufacture and sell it at a profit and sustainable for cheaper than that. That seems wild to me.

Speaker 5: Yeah. One of the main reasons why trying to recreate this doesn't make sense is simply because Flipper is as much a community project as it is the actual devs. So it's got a year worth of all these really smart people putting in all this work trying to make this thing work correctly. And I think that's literally, like, one of the biggest selling points for this thing at this point.

Speaker 4: Starting something new isn't just hard. It can be downright terrifying. You put a lot of work into a thing. You're not entirely sure it's gonna work out. You're taking a huge leap of faith. I've started a few things. Now I know I was right for believing in, you know, the idea, the product, despite all of those fears and hesitations. But boy, does it sure help when you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in The US. From household names like, well, hacked podcasts merch to brands just getting started, you can get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Did I mention that that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? I don't know why I wouldn't. I should. It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less carts, sort of getting abandoned in the parking lot and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com/hacked. Go to shopify.com/hacked. One more time, That's shopify.com/hacked.

Speaker 6: Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for

Speaker 7: a limited time, college students get

Speaker 6: the best

Speaker 5: of both worlds.

Speaker 7: Get the Unreal College Seal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three sixty five premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com/studentoffer. While supplies last, ends June 30, terms at aka.ms/collegepc.

Speaker 2: When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

Speaker 8: Thinking about refreshing the carpet in your home? Now's the time to do it. For a limited time at The Home Depot, get 10% off installed carpet projects on trusted brands like Lifeproof, Lifeproof with PetProof Technology, Home Decorators Collection, and Traffic Master. Plus, with installation starting at just 49¢ per square foot, upgrading your space is more affordable than ever at The Home Depot. Offer valid 06/11/2026 through 06/28/2026. Exclusions apply for licenses. See homedepot.com/license numbers.

Speaker 4: You said something kind of similar in one of your videos I watched. It was like, you said something to the effect of without the community, the flipper zero is nothing. So for, I guess, someone like me who doesn't own one of these things yet, but is sort of up to speed on what it can do, where's that line between what it can really do out of the box, the sort of, like, manufacturer intended uses and what the community has empowered it to do? Like, a broad overview of what it can do and what people have figured out it can do.

Speaker 5: Sure. So the basically, the, the bare model flipper, especially in the earlier times, obviously, they have frequencies and things that are locked out for different places. And, honestly, most people don't really need to use those frequencies, but that's one of the things that the custom firmwares do. But beyond that, most of the good applications are written by the community. Obviously, the frequency analyzers and some of the IR functions like the those are those are things that were built by the original devs. But all of the additional hardware and functionality, has been from the community. So Mhmm. You've got a lot of stuff. Like, again, using, the the Wi Fi board that comes with it or that you can buy with it, that's set up with a firmware called Blackmagic. What that's for is it's a it's a log viewer. It's a debug viewer. So you can wirelessly read the logs from Flipper. That's what it was more or less designed to do. What the community ended up doing was installing JustCallMeCoco's Wi Fi Marauder on it. Now you can test Wi Fi devices. So you can deauthenticate Wi Fi devices. You can, record their handshakes. You can try to decrypt passwords and things like that. So a lot more functionality. You've also got people like RabbitLab out there and AWOC making all sorts of boards. So, again, we've got the NRF board, which I mentioned before for trying to intercept, wireless keyboards and mice. You've got a number of different, CC 11 o one is a is basically the chipset that they use, to get sub gigahertz frequencies. And, basically, the community has made ones of those that work for 10 times further than what it currently works on without it. So they really added to the functionality to the base functionality through all of these, you know, community projects. And it's just really cool to see.

Speaker 3: So the sub sub gigahertz frequencies, what are they typically used in? Do you know?

Speaker 5: So, I mean, the, they're normally four thirty three and nine hundred, I believe.

Speaker 3: Okay. And they're used in, what, like, ID pass cards and stuff. Right?

Speaker 7: Is that the

Speaker 5: Well, so those no. So that the ID pass cards are yeah. Those are gonna be RFID or there's gonna be NFC, both of which the flipper can definitely handle. And the, yeah, the, the wireless stuff is, anything from older car keys. Well, granted, you can read a car key. It's no problem. You just can't use it in most common most current keys, because they use rolling codes in which basically just means they have a a sequential list of codes that it will use based on an algorithm. And without knowing the algorithm, you don't know the next code, so you can't use it. But, that's what the the c c 11 o one sub gigahertz stuff does. Same with, I use in the control lights and stuff and little other stuff like that. And then, yeah, it does NFC, so it can read, a lot of my fair keys. You can decrypt if you have enough of the, the the the set the segments. Sorry. And, yeah, you can you can emulate a lot of sub, RFID stuffs were pretty easy to copy. So anything that's relatively low security, you can pretty much copy too. And then you can get some data off of credit cards, which was a bit of a problem because that's why they got kicked off at Amazon because Amazon saw that as being able to skim credit cards, which it definitely does not do.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, like, in the old, you know, hacker movies and movies that have some cybersecurity professional and somebody steals somebody's, like, hotel key room card, these things, like, when I first got it, I was looking through all the little sections. I I updated to the newest firmware and stuff, went through some of the apps, and and it it's as easy as, like, hitting read, tapping the card, and then hitting emulate, and then tapping the, like, the the hotel room door and boom, it opens.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And that will work on some some systems. It won't on some other ones. It depends on the libraries and the dictionaries that you have.

Speaker 3: Of course.

Speaker 5: But yeah. I mean, it's literally, in a lot of cases, that easy.

Speaker 3: Let's chat about the firmware world because that was one thing, like, when I got this thing, I was like, what do I do with it? I didn't even buy an SD card because I didn't

Speaker 5: realize it needed one. I did that too. I I am that guy as well, so don't

Speaker 3: feel too bad. The the I got it. And then I was, like, looking around at it, and then I I see some of your videos, and I see some other content about them. And I was like, man, it seems like mine's missing a bunch of stuff. And then I started looking into it, and there's a bunch of different major firmware manufacturers. Do you wanna let me maybe as somebody that's been a part of that community, just give me a rundown or give us a rundown of, like, you know

Speaker 5: So, yeah, I can do that. Basically, I'll do a quick little story time in case we wanna know the I

Speaker 3: like that. I like story time.

Speaker 5: And I'm pretty sure this is pretty accurate. Not a 100% on everything because, again, this is all, like, spoken word history, but, hopefully, my memory is is good enough for this. So, yeah, basically, in the beginning, it was just the normal firmware. And then, there was, Nano and engineer, I wanna say. There were two guys that were working on the firmware earlier on, then, it ended up just being Nano for one reason or another, we won't get into. And then, yeah, basically, Unleashed was born at that point in time. The fact that they unlocked the frequency regular the frequency blocks for certain countries was relatively frowned on upon in the, in the official firmware land. So most of those guys got kind of exiled for lack of a better term. So that kind of branched off. So now we have unleashed firmware. And then Rogue Master came along. And basically, what Rogue Master was doing was taking the unleashed firmware, adding things like animations, which was one of the things that got me into, into Rogue Master firmware anyway because I like animations and stuff like that. I have, like, a touch of the ADHD and things that are moving around kinda, you know, make me happy. But yeah. So that was one of the things that I liked about it. And then he would also go through and scrub pretty much any application that he could find for the, for Flipper, and he would add it to the firmware, like, right away. So that app had or that would have basically the newest everything on it all the time. Yeah. One of the downsides to that was some of these apps didn't work super well yet. Because, again, this is we're all doing all the bleeding edge technology or technology, but bleeding edge, software. So sometimes those things wouldn't work and you'd end up with stuff that crashed. But I mean, again, if you want the latest and greatest, sometimes you run into issues with compatibility. So that's where Rogue Master kinda came from. And then Extreme popped up with Clara. She started working on a firmware, I wanna say it was December of last year, as kind of an aesthetic pack on top of Rogue Master. And that was more or less the idea. Started optimizing some of the codes there. At some point, decided to, reset and basically rebuild that firmware based off of official, firmware, so it's no longer a fork. So and then they started working on more stuff there. Willie showed up, and Willie is their, like, main dev now there too and really started doing some new stuff. Willie's very good at, c and coding for Flipper in particular. So that at that point, Extreme really started doing a lot of really unique things. So all the most of the newest stuff out there has been really pushed and and helped out by, Willie and Extreme, the firmware. So they've done a lot of good stuff over there. So right now, most of the Extreme firmware is that's they've got most of the newest stuff out there because people are reaching out to the XFW devs whenever they have a new project or something. And they're actually being very active with the community in adding support for different add on modules and stuff like that. So it's really been cool because, yeah, you can make something. Like, Rabbit Labs will make a, an antenna and make like, reach out to, XFW and be like, hey, can you make sure this is gonna work well on your firmware? And they'll add a function to it. Like, the ability to actually plug in external IR had to be built into the firmware because of obviously, it didn't exist because there was no real reason to do it. But because of that, now we have the ability to plug in IR boards that have seven or 12 or whatever LEDs on it. So it's a lot more functionality, but that had to be built into the firmware. And the fact that, you know, people could just go out and ask Willie if they could, you know, try to get it put into the firmware, it's it was pretty cool. So those are the main the main three firmwares right now. Wait. Main three custom firmwares. There were some earlier things that were kind of abandonware, but, like, yeah, that's pretty much where things are at at the moment.

Speaker 3: So as, when I got it, obviously, as an extreme person, I put on the extreme firmware. Was that was that, like, the right move?

Speaker 5: There are no wrong moves, honestly. I tell everybody to try what you know, try everything out. They all have their pluses and minuses. Absolutely. And they all have different kind of artistic directions as far as what they're made for. Mhmm. Like, unleashed is a little bit less it's a little trimmed down, for for a reason. Like, they don't include as many things because they really the idea for Extreme was to include functionality, but let people decide what apps and files and stuff they wanted. Right. Where, like, Rogue Master was just like, well, I want everything on it. I wanna just everything that's available, I wanna put in my firmware. And Extreme decided they wanted to redo everything. So they kinda just made their own stuff. Like, they redid the entire UI. They added their own, settings and things like that. They were the ones that finally figured out how to change themes and stuff, which is something that I had wanted to do for a while. But, again, I'm not a a coder, so that was way outside of my my realm of influence. But they did a lot of really cool stuff that, I had always wanted to see implemented. So I was always impressed by that.

Speaker 3: As as, as somebody who hasn't spent much time playing with it or using it or looked into building anything for it or even shoved any boards or modules in the GPIO, the one thing in the extreme firmware that I gotta say I loved was the ability to turn it off easier. Instead of having to go through the menus and find the power off switch, you could just tap on the back button until it prompted you to turn off. And that, as a basic user, meant a lot to me. And I was like, wow. This is great.

Speaker 5: So here's a funny thing, and this is something that catches people off guard off guard all the time, and it did the same thing for me. That function is in the official firmware. However, you have to hold it for a very, very, very long time to the point where you're like, is this working? So it it does do that in the official firmware. They just cut the time down to, like, two seconds or one second.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I I did not because I when I first got it and I had the default firmware, I tried, and I was like, you gotta be able to still hold this button down. And I held it for a long time, and it never prompted me to turn off. And then I was like, oh my god. Do I actually have to go into the menu and go to the power, turn it off through there? And so that that is funny that it did exist. It just was a user experience problem rather than a a code issue.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And it I always thought I'm like, why do you have to hold it so long? It's just weird.

Speaker 3: Yeah. That's interesting. Like, I I it's good to know some of the background of this thing as as as it it definitely like, I I I recently flew somewhere, and I didn't wanna take it. You know? I'm kind of afraid of it in a small way. I'm like, is this gonna emit problematic radio transmissions, and I don't wanna have it on an airplane? Will I get stopped at customs for having this thing? Like, what is what is the liability that I've now taken on by owning this thing and carrying it around with me?

Speaker 5: And for the most part, it won't be an issue. Don't go to Brazil. I think that's probably the one the one caveat. But, yeah, for the most part, it's really not a big deal. People travel with these all the time. Granted yeah. Because we had a bunch of everybody went to Defcon. So

Speaker 6: Totally.

Speaker 5: Bunch of flippers. So they they all made it.

Speaker 6: Cool. I

Speaker 5: think we're

Speaker 3: we're gonna be at Defcon next year. So hopefully, we'll see you there.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I'm I'm I'm wanting to go, and I've already kind of mentioned to my employer and stuff that I'll probably be doing that. So, yeah, I I very much hope to go next year.

Speaker 3: Let's, let's chat about some of the modules that go on this thing because it seems like there's a lot of them. And it seems like there's a lot that kinda do the same thing. I've looked at some of the ones from AWOC. Is that right?

Speaker 5: Yep. AWOC.

Speaker 3: And some of them seem as impressive as the Flipper Zero itself, literally. Like, I look at some of these modules, and I'm like, oh, my god. Somebody like, massive OLED screen, bunch of, like, external antenna arrays. Like, they're Yep. They they seem really comprehensive. So, like, what what have you found to be some of the best modules? Actually, I'm gonna reframe that question and say, what should I buy to play more with this thing?

Speaker 5: Okay.

Speaker 3: Because that's really what I'm asking.

Speaker 5: It's it's a it's pretty easy. So first things first, doesn't matter where you get it from. Buy a, a Wi Fi board. You can get the official one. That's fine. Or you can get one from literally almost anyone. AWOC's a a good friend of mine. And, yeah, get an external Wi Fi board. That's really, really cool. Beyond that, the external c c 11 o ones are very cool because it extends the range that Flipper has, like, by a lot. So you can, you know, you can you can access things that are much, much further away. And it's a lot this makes it a lot easier to, you know, to actually do the things you wanna do.

Speaker 3: And the CC 11 o one is used for what exactly? Is that sub gigahertz?

Speaker 5: Yeah. It's a sub gigahertz range extender. Okay. So what you're referring to is actually a really interesting thing. You're look looking at the dual ESP 32 touchscreen. That's a very cool project for a number of reasons, and it's a a project that I when he first sent me the pictures of this thing, I was like, oh, man. This is what always what I wanted this to be. The original design of this or the original one I actually made. I wanted to do a because I put the touch screen on a, a combo board. So I had a touch screen ESP 32, and then I had a n r f 24 on that. So kind of the earlier version of the dual ESP. And then my next one that I made, which was my YETI board, which was actually a PCB project I worked on with, a guy named I'm Orion. And what that was, it actually had two ESP 30 twos on it. One of which was running the screen so you could run, just call me Coco's Wi Fi Marauder because the software, the firmware that actually runs the the the Wi Fi card, you know, the flipper Wi Fi card, that's the same one that Koko uses in his ESP 32 Marauder, stand alone setups. So he actually has a device which is for Wi Fi penetration testing. And it's a standalone device and it's got its own firmware. The ESP 32 runs the screen. So when I realized that, I was like, alright. Cool. I put that onto one of my boards. But what I really wanted to do was I wanted to have two ESP 30 twos. One that was on its own and one that was run by the flipper. Mhmm. The idea was, basically, you use the flipper to do a deauth or a deauthentication attack against a Wi Fi device. So that's gonna kick that what I that device off of the Wi Fi and then use the stand alone to get the PCAP files, the handshake files for when it reconnects. So you're kind of doing two halves of the same attack where you are, you know, both kicking something off of a network and trying to capture when they try to reconnect. So that's why this board, the my why I made my board. And then, AWAC saw that and he's like, okay. That's a cool idea. And so he made the one that he has as basically what I wanted to do just done by somebody who's better at it. So, yeah, that's what the dual ESP 32 that he created was was pretty much the same idea as the one that I did just executed much better.

Speaker 3: So the just, just for, you know, explanation's sake, ESP 32 are Wi Fi chips. Correct?

Speaker 5: Basically, it's a Wi Fi board and some of them have Bluetooth.

Speaker 3: Gotcha. Gotcha. And then something you mentioned a few times that I'm not fully up on and don't fully understand what it is that I doubt Jordan does, the Wi Fi Marauder. What exactly is the Wi Fi Marauder?

Speaker 5: The ESP 32 Marauder is an entire, you know, program set. And what that does is it can do deauthentication attacks. It can scan Wi Fi networks. It can capture handshakes. It basically can send and receive Wi Fi stuff. Sure. And you can just basically figure out what you wanna do with the information that you're sending or receiving.

Speaker 3: Can it sniff? Like, can it sniff on, like, unencrypted network traffic?

Speaker 5: So yes and no. I don't think you're getting, as much data as you would, like, on, like, Wireshark or anything.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: But it's you can sniff a decent amount of stuff, and you can just sniff raw and just see what you get. So, yeah, yeah, you can do a decent amount of stuff with it.

Speaker 3: So the, let's just talk about the PCAP stuff for a sec because I I know what it is, but but some other people might not. So the d auth let's just start with d auth. So when you d auth attack attack something, you're essentially punting it from a Wi Fi network. Correct?

Speaker 5: Yeah. So deauthentication attack is very politely asking a device to get off the network.

Speaker 3: Yep. And then PCAPs so when you reconnect to a Wi Fi network, essentially, your computer and the network have a little negotiation and pass a bunch of keys back and forth that agree that they should that this device should go on the network, and that's called the authentication process, which is what the PCAP files represent. Correct?

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yep.

Speaker 3: Perfect. K. And you can take those PCAP files, and through a a different process, you can actually dictionary attack or brute force the Wi Fi password. Correct?

Speaker 5: Yeah. You can use, well, there's a bunch of things, but I think we use Hashcat for that usually.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Perfect. K. I just wanted to make sure I was fully aware of of kind of what the Wi Fi Marauder toolbox does. Because you've mentioned it a number of times, and I know that there's a lot of boards that I see and a lot of extensions, even some stand alones from, Coco that run it. And I just wanted to make sure I knew what it was before I I got one of these beautiful things and plugged it into this thing and figured out, you know, what kind of devious things I can get up to.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So that's basically what Just Call Me Coco does is the, is the the Wi Fi Marauder stuff.

Speaker 3: Nice. Their devices and as well as, AWOC's devices both seem really, really nice. The Rabbit what was the Rabbit one you mentioned?

Speaker 5: So, yeah, Rabbit Labs. Check out Rabbit Labs.

Speaker 3: I find them I like, every search I make for these things, I always end up on some website that I'd never known to exist called Tindi. I think it's called Tindi. Is that right?

Speaker 5: Yeah. So he's yep. It's, tindi.com/storage/tehrabbitwith2t'sand, two b's.

Speaker 3: So the, because I think rabbit makes a lot of the infrared, the IR booster boards. Right?

Speaker 5: That's Rabbit. Rabbit makes, the IR booster boards. He was the first one to do them. He's got a really good IR he's got two of them, really. He's got the MastaBlaster, which is, I believe 12 LEDs. So it's really strong. There's a lot of, lot of range there. And the first one he made was the Death Star IRBlaster. Mhmm. And one of the things that's really cool about Rabbit Labs and, again, all these guys have their own specific style, and it's all very different it's kind of interesting when you look at it and basically rabbit labs does a lot of really cool screen printing and things like that and he's just his stuff has a different vibe to it than everybody else's And then AWOK, again, he does, like it's hard to explain without showing the different things that people are making.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah. They're they're but they have a very distinctive style. AWOK's a musician and a graphic artist, and it really comes through in his electronics in a lot of ways. Totally. And then Rabbit is just a hardware dude. So, he just makes really good complicated stuff, and then puts fun screen printing and stuff on it. And everything's got, like, a little bit of a personality. He's got a coming out a a minion ESP 32 board, which looks like one of the minions. And it's just there's little things. Yeah. He's got a a a minion marauder, and it's just cool. It's just he makes cool stuff. All these guys make really cool stuff.

Speaker 3: Because the the Death Star is an IR blaster. Right? And it's kinda like Yep. It's got like a I've seen a a video of it. It's got like a glowing light, like, as the Death Star can and when it's powered up and stuff. It's just like a cool they are very, very cool little little things.

Speaker 5: Oh, so yeah. Like, it's it's just a it's a great way of marketing too if you think about it because, I mean, obviously, it looks cool, so people are gonna look at it, and they're gonna want it. So, yeah, it's it's really cool.

Speaker 3: Yeah. The AWOC stuff, the I've been waiting for something to come back in stock. It seems like he sells out pretty fast or they sell out pretty fast. The I would love to order some some of their their products, and I'd love to get one of their T shirts. I love their kind of they're very kind of graffiti artist y DJ. Yeah. I

Speaker 5: know. His T shirts are awesome. Yeah. And he he makes those too. He sells out extremely fast, and people don't realize that these shops are people. Like, Rabbit Labs, Just Call Me Coco, AWAC, they're just people. Mhmm. And they have jobs and families and stuff like that. So they can't mass produce a 100 of something. Mhmm. Like, well, actually, Rabbit does. Rabbit's that dude's a beast. He makes a lot

Speaker 6: of stuff.

Speaker 5: Mhmm. But it's also because he because of the things that he does is set up to do things like that. Like, he can batch surface mount stuff in an an oven. Like, he can do that. Most people can't. He's got a part picker. Like, he's got stuff that nobody has because it's prohibitively expensive if you're doing something like this.

Speaker 3: A lot of the modules you buy are literally just raw circuit boards, and it seems like most people then three d print custom cases for them. And you can even download the print files from the the circuit board makers often. Like, here's the case if you wanna make print your own case. The, it seems like an ecosystem just ripe for gadgety people. You know? Like, hey. There's a cool gadget here. This gadget also requires you to get other gadgets that then require you to get a three d printer to print new gadgets. It just seems like a a gadget ecosystem, and I'm not opposed to it. I like gadgets. I'm a big gadget guy. So

Speaker 5: Well, no. You're absolutely right. And, again, this is where one of the things that happened because of basically these cases, that's kind of when I started doing some of the three d printing stuff I was doing. I picked up an Ender three, back in, like, February or something because, a, I wanted to mess around with three d printing and, b, it was a cool backdrop item. I would have it printing what I was filming. I just thought that was cool.

Speaker 3: Do it all for the content.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, I bought a printer, and I spent some time modding it and messing it around with that. So I kept printing more and more, learning more and more about three d printing and and, you know, putting designs on stuff. And so I I keep posting stuff like that. Well, the interesting thing about that was that's how I actually got, asked by deadmau5 to make him a case. So yeah. Yeah. Because he had posted a picture of his flipper with a Wi Fi board plugged into it, like, a couple weeks ago. And I just ran him. Somebody's like, oh, look. Hey. Dedmost got a, he's got a flipper. So I'm like, oh, screw. I gotta put a a comment on there. So I commented on there. Like, hey, man. If you ever need, like, any flipper stuff, he's like, yeah. I've I've I've heard about you. I've heard good things. And I was like, holy crap. So yeah. So then he DMs me, and he's asking if I could make him a case for it. So I'm like, oh, yeah. Absolutely. But, like, yeah. It's the weirdest thing. Like, one random email because I started a YouTube channel about Flipper Zero, and now I'm printing a case for dead mouse, which I think it got delivered today. So, yeah, it's just it's just really weird. But, again, it just goes to show, like, this is another one of the situations that Flipper Zero and just the little weird things that you run into along the along the way. Like, you'd really never know what that butterfly effect is gonna is gonna have.

Speaker 3: So the so this tiny little device that you probably kick started, I'm assuming.

Speaker 5: No. I didn't.

Speaker 3: You didn't?

Speaker 5: I didn't kick start it. No. I was I was so lucky. I randomly I don't know if I ran into an ad or what, but I I know that they were really hard to get. And I didn't really know much about them. Randomly saw an ad about it and I saw they were in stock. I'm like, screw it. I'm gonna buy it. Whatever. I don't buy things for myself very often anyway. So I'll I'll go buy it. Whatever. I don't care.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So you bought this thing, then you started designing circuits free and soldering circuit boards, then you started writing c, and now you're, like, hanging out with dead mouse. So that is your Flipper Zero story arc.

Speaker 5: I'm not hanging out per se, but I've definitely I've talked to him a bunch of times. He's he's actually, he's just a really cool guy. It's really weird. I've met a bunch of people. I actually just ran into, Zero Day yesterday, and super cool guy too. Is this all these people that, like, actually know who I am because of this YouTube channel. And the YouTube channel really was I was almost bullied into doing it anyway, which I thought was interesting. Because originally, the only reason why I started doing this was, if you've if you've done much digging into, like, all the files and stuff, you may have run-in or heard of UberGoritos. He was, like, the most well known dude possible in Flipper World. Mhmm. So and he was around in some of the Discords and stuff, but he had seen, my tutorial for making animations. And he's like, hey. You you do a pretty good job of, of writing down tutorials and stuff like that. I've got a project I'm involved in with Lab four zero one, and we're making tutorial videos on how to use some of these devices. I'd be glad really happy to have you, you know, join that.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: So that's where I got into making a video for Lab four zero one. And I at that point after that, I decided to start making my own stuff. But, yeah, basically, Uber was like, hey. You you wanna do this? And he was, again, the coolest guy I knew at the time. So I'm like, alright. Sure. Yeah. No problem. And and, yeah, it was because of him I even started doing any of this stuff.

Speaker 3: See, now now I just feel bad for Uber because he was the coolest guy you knew at the time, but now you're hanging out with dead mouse. You know, like, Uber's Uber's just a regular guy now.

Speaker 5: Uber's a busy dude. I'm friends with him on, like, actual Facebook. And, yeah, he's a busy dude. He's got a lot of stuff going on.

Speaker 3: So where do you think this thing's gonna go next? You know, are there any any projects that you're aware of? Any new functionality that you think people are building for it? Or do you think it's just just gonna be kind of is there anybody out there that's really, like, taking it to the next level? Like, is there something that we should watch out for? Or, like, you know, what do you where where does it go now?

Speaker 5: That's a really good question, honestly. So I do know that there's a new piece of hardware coming out called the Flipper Nano, and that is a basically, a flipper with less internal functionality and two rows of GPIO. So you have twice the output. Mhmm. Oh, I guess input output. So there will definitely be a bit of a paradigm shift whenever that goes. Who knows if that will be this coming year, the year after that? Who knows? Their time frames for flipper stuff is you don't wanna mess with them. You never know. Mhmm. But that's a project coming out. But the again, the crazy thing about and this is every every kind of field or every whatever genre of stuff, but someone will just show up and be a game changer. Mhmm. They'll just out of nowhere roll up and do something nobody thought was possible, and it just unlocks just so much potential. Like, it just everything all of a sudden happens.

Speaker 3: The one of the things I've been wondering about this device is, you know, is there a dark web, some private discords, places like that where you can get more, how should I put this, aggressive applications. Like the like, stealing a car key's rolling key code is very plausible. There's devices that do it already. It's actually not that hard. And the flipper probably has most of the functionality or could be extended to have the functionality to do it. Is are there places where people build apps that are a little bit less and build and share apps that are a little bit less publicly accepted?

Speaker 5: So absolutely. Now I'm not aware of any, like, specific place. I'm also not the best person to tell about stuff like that. Sure. Not that I'm gonna, like, make a video on it immediately, but being a little bit more higher profile person, I don't really I I don't get, invitations to the dark web as often as I used to, you know? But, so there are people that write scripts. Like, I have scripts right now that I won't give out. Like, I have a flipper zero ransomware script, and I have a key logger scripts. So there's a bunch of stuff that I am aware of and it's things that I have because I've used them for videos before. But, are there places out there that, you know, are writing codes for stuff? Maybe. Like, because I know that, that Zero Day had mentioned on an interview he'd done that he he was doing some things on his flipper that, at the time weren't really being done yet. Uh-huh. But, honestly, since then, we've realized that, I mean, they do we the those scripts have been written. So whether or not he had those early or, you know, wrote them himself or whatever, but, you know, it it did imply that some people had things that other people didn't. Mhmm. Just like I have some things that other people's don't. Of course. And other people have things that I don't.

Speaker 3: Well, the, as an appeal to the community, if you're a member of a community or discord that builds Flipper scripts that maybe aren't public, fire me a DM. Just hit me up. I'd be I'd be I'd be I'd be intrigued to know what else is going on under the covers. Because I because when I got this thing and when I realized what it was, like, I I thought it was a tool, and then I realized it was a platform. I was like, oh, there's a bunch of built in functions already, but then you have the ability to extend it, And then you have the ability to essentially custom develop whatever you'd like for it.

Speaker 5: What's cool about that idea too is seeing it as a platform because, also, you have an incredibly powerful computer in your pocket already

Speaker 3: Mhmm.

Speaker 5: That can communicate with Flipper. So as far as, yeah, figuring out the algorithm, your phone could probably do that pretty quick.

Speaker 3: Mhmm. Mhmm. So I'm intrigued. I mean, yeah, no. I'm just intrigued to see I'm intrigued to know what you don't find on YouTube about this thing. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah. I know. I a 100% agree. And I do I look for it. I look for that stuff too, obviously, on Reddit and all sorts of other places. I'm constantly looking for for new stuff. Again, being who I am, it's a little bit easier because people reach out to me. Mhmm. So someone will just hit me up on in DMs, be like, yo, I made a payload encryptor or something like that. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And that's how I met that's literally how I met Red, who was the guy who wrote the ransomware in keylogger. And, yeah. He's just like, hey. I made this one thing. And he was like, hey. You do you know anybody who has this? And I'm like, nah. I don't know anybody who has this. And he's like, well, I do. I'm like, not anymore.

Speaker 3: Well, I do. I like that. Sounds like Red's the guy that I'd like to meet on. Yeah. This is, it's a very interesting little device. I'm intrigued to to, I should say, play with it, but I would say educate myself more on its functionality and what can be done and how I can extend it or it can be extended to do different things because it's coming from the software world, you know, I'm familiar with all kinds of software vulnerabilities and code problems and things like that, but I've never really been into the hardware side, and this has definitely piqued my interest. You know, I've aside from emulating circuit designs that have been given to me to make, you know, musical instruments often, I've never really built anything. And now I have this desire to build a board, and I'm not sure what I wanted to do yet. So

Speaker 5: Yeah. And, I mean, you can do pretty much you can do a lot of stuff. And if you're a code guy, definitely check out Code All Night. Really, really cool guy named Derek Jamieson. He is a phenomenal coder. I think he used to work for Microsoft. Don't quote me on that. But really, really ridiculously, like, painfully smart dude. And, yeah, he he writes code and apps and stuff like that. So if you're interested in software side, and possibly coding stuff, he's he's a great resource for that as well.

Speaker 4: I'm curious as, like, a as a content creator. You know, I watched your video on the ransomware, stuff that it can do. I'll watch your stuff on hacking Wi Fi passwords. In the ransomware episode, you there's this really interesting moment where you you blur blur the payload essentially. And you flat out say, I'm doing this so that, like, a teenager doesn't get themselves arrested. And it's like a fellow content creator that makes stuff about cybersecurity. Like how do you navigate that line between not wanting to empower a person to maybe mess their life up, but wanting to put this information out there and wanting to share it with curious interested people and wanting to push the community forward. How do you balance those two things?

Speaker 5: It's tricky, because, obviously, doing things like the authoring Wi Fi cameras, which was literally the first thing I ever published. It wasn't a picture of an animation. My very first TikTok, because I tried to start TikTok as a platform, which is a silly thing you do. But my first video was literally showing me disabling my video cam, my surveillance cameras. And, yeah, trying to figure out where the tipping point is. Now hacking Wi Fi stuff, that's really, really easy information to find. Sure. So with five seconds worth of work, you can find somewhere else to get that information. So if I'm another person doing a video on how to do it, who cares? Right? Right. So where I draw the line is handing someone a weapon. And that's kind of the way I saw that video. And especially with bad USB, now for and if anybody doesn't know what bad USB is, Flipper has the functionality effectively of, like, a rubber ducky. So what it will do is you plug in your Flipper to a computer, and you can run a script through PowerShell or whatever. You can basically use it as a keyboard, and you could do code injection. So what that means is if I plug my Flipper into something, I can run a code that, you know, is on my flipper. The problem with that is it's very, very easy to do. Uh-huh. And when things are too easy to do, people do them without knowing why they're doing them or what might happen. So as an example, I've seen a bunch of examples. One of which was, somebody almost got auto banned in my Discord by the bot because they ran a script that typed in every single line from a b movie, sequentially every, like, half second. So they got flood spam, then they got kicked for it. But Flipper Zero can be used to, you know, infect your computer with with ransomware. And, you know, just things to be aware of. Like, yeah, these things do exist. And since I have an audience that, you know, watches things about bad u USB and stuff, it's a good idea to at least spread some awareness about that. And I did I thought it was kind of a cool thing. But, again, I'm not gonna hand somebody the tool to completely screw up somebody's computer.

Speaker 4: Sure. That makes sense. I guess minor point of clarification. When you say that person in your Discord posted b movie quotes, are you saying they posted quotes from a low budget film or from the 2,007 animated comedy b movie starring Jerry Seinfeld?

Speaker 5: It was in fact the February era b movie with posted yeah. With Jerry Seinfeld, in fact. Yes.

Speaker 4: Sure. Where he plays a bee trying to sue humanity for how they've treated bees. I'm familiar. Exactly. Confirm that.

Speaker 5: Yes. Yes. Every single line of that movie in order That's amazing. Posted in Discord. And, yeah, that was that was it was fun. And I think the person that did that, they were actually in voice chat at the time, and you could actively hear them freaking out, which was very funny.

Speaker 4: Sure. Oh, that's great. I mean, that that kinda tangentially connects to the one other big question I had, which is, like, kinda to do with Internet clout and flipper zero. I watched some of your I watched flipper zero TikToks, so you don't have to videos. Quality content, just to pass on my compliments. But so many of those are about taking this device that can do a ton of stuff. It functions as a platform to do even more stuff. And a lot of the TikTok content is about lying about what it can do, which I found interesting. It's about like, watch me tap a credit card on it and boom, I have the credit card and can use it. It's like, well, for all the things it can do, you managed to find a couple things it didn't and are now lying about it on TikTok. Why do you think it became the, like, I don't know, like, center of a little bit of an Internet clout trend? Where in a way that hacking devices really haven't done before.

Speaker 5: It was very interesting seeing how that was. And, actually, I specifically picked a lot of the videos in the TikTok one that were real. Like, some of the things that I showed off were real. I I featured a couple with I I again, I am Jacoby and Taco Cat, I believe. So some of those things were real, but especially in the beginning. In the beginning, it was bad. It was really bad, honestly. They showed some really sketchy things. One of the videos that I couldn't find that I wanted to feature in that video because I thought I really needed to talk about it. But basically, some dude with a flipper zero, effectively tries to show that he's stealing a card from somebody and then following them into a building. And you can kinda do that, but the way he was doing it wasn't working at all. And he was just, like, pushed it packs the bag and but what was going on is people love sensationalism. They wanna think that this is a sonic screwdriver, and they literally, like so when they see something like that, they immediately believe it because it's the Internet, and everything on the Internet must be real. I don't know why people believe anything on the Internet. But, yeah. So the that that kind of stuff went viral, and that's what people started thinking they were getting when they bought flippers. So I actually kind of cashed in on that idea because if I'm doing tutorials and somebody bought one of these specifically trying to do this, then maybe they'll find my channel and watch my stuff. But the flip side of that is why I made an entire video and actually spent a good amount of time with, a guy named Betsy who's a pretty well known guy with, like, as far as NFC goes. He spent a lot of time, like, explaining how NFC and stuff works. But that's why I made a video specifically said why Flipper Zero can't steal your credit cards because that was one of the most common things that I had seen where people showing how they could use their flipper to steal credit cards. And it's just you can't do it. It can't be done, at least not with any, like, normal style credit card.

Speaker 4: Sure.

Speaker 5: But, yeah, there's all there was an awful lot of that. And, I mean, it was it was it was, you know, getting clicks. It was getting views. I had never ever gotten anywhere near any of those, like, you know, million view videos even showing, like, the deothic Wi Fi cameras. And that was real. I really did that. But it never really had the same appeal as somebody, you know, fake using a credit card or faking using it to access something that you definitely couldn't. But, yeah, those those videos went crazy, especially earlier on.

Speaker 4: Cloud chasing with flipper zeros on TikTok. A new sentence. My last question has to do with something you said earlier. We were talking about, you know, feeling safe taking this thing and traveling with it. You brought up Defcon, which is basically thousands of these things converging on one city. So it's obviously okay, but you made reference to Brazil. You said I probably wouldn't take it to Brazil. So I'm curious what happened in Brazil. And broadly, do you think there's going to be, I don't know, more of a legal response to this thing as it becomes more famous and more popular on the Internet and people construe and misconstrue what it can do? Do you think there will be more legal fallout, essentially?

Speaker 5: So I think at this point, at least for most places, it's we're pretty much over it. Basically, flipper devices are not certified in Brazil. They're not allowed in Brazil. Yeah. And probably mostly from I don't know. I'm just I'm gonna speculate and say auto theft. Because now this is a very valid point and somebody had pointed out before because, I wanna say Hakista, YouTube channel. I believe he's out of The Philippines. But, he pointed out that where he was located, a lot of vehicles have aftermarket, keyless entry. The aftermarket ones, a lot of them don't use rolling codes. So you actually can access cars with those. So, certain places got a little bit, you know, concerned about it. And I mean, again, even Amazon blocked the sales of them because they thought they were credit card scammers, which is the one thing it can't do. Well, it can't do a lot of things, but it's one of the things it can't do.

Speaker 4: Sure.

Speaker 5: So, again, super interesting. And, yeah, it's I don't see it getting banned anywhere else at this point because, again, it's not that damage is done, but at this point, you can pretty much figure out what it does and doesn't do. I mean, hell, if you're, entire country, you have the time to watch my videos. Just just find out what it does first.

Speaker 4: Watch Talking Sasquatch before you pass any legislation. Yeah.

Speaker 5: I just just just give me a few views. You can skip the ads. It's fine. It's fine.

Speaker 3: Just drop a DM. Work for us. Yeah. Work for us.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Exactly.

Speaker 3: Work for work for dead mouse. Work for us. It's 10:00. Thank you for

Speaker 4: us sitting down and chatting with us. I think that's everything I wanted to ask. What, Scott? You got anything else?

Speaker 3: No. No. I think I think the the first hour of intense tech chatter was, was mostly what I was looking for. So I think I'm good.

Speaker 5: And, definitely, thanks for having me. It's been fun. Like, I so I apologize. This is my first actual, like, long form podcast.

Speaker 3: I don't know.

Speaker 5: It's it's been it's every time I've done things like this, it's been tricky. Like, I did a video with David Bombal, and we actually had recorded more videos. But that was, like, three hours of doing things live. I'm not used to working live. So, and I do a decent amount of of post production. So it's again, first time being actually on a podcast. It's but it's been fun. It's just that something I've I've I've done before. So I'm getting used to the format.

Speaker 4: No. No. Well, you crushed it. Yeah. We appreciate having you.

Speaker 3: Five stars. Five stars for talking Sasquatch.

Speaker 5: Much appreciate you guys.

Speaker 3: Hey, man. Well, thanks again for coming on, and, maybe we'll talk again in the future.

Speaker 5: You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omni Shade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia, engineered for whatever.

Speaker 9: The most memorable gifts aren't found, they're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product, a mug, a card, a tote, a phone case, and make it personal, a photo, a name, an inside joke, the kind of gift that actually fits the person. That's what 30,000,000 customers have been coming back to Zazzle for over twenty years to find. Right now, save 25% on your first order at zazzle.com. That's zazzle.com. Make it z amazing.

Speaker 6: Athletic brewing company crafts award winning nonalcoholic beers for those who wanna be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant, or store near you. Near beer, athletic brewing company fit for all times.